Comments on: Hats Off to Rafael

By: 100swallows

100swallows — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:42:50 +0000

Aryul: It’s true everyone seemed to like Rafael. And Condivi said that although Michelangelo and Rafael had competed, Michelangelo never spoke ill of him. He only said: what he achieved, he achieved through work, not through nature (which wasn’t really true, of course but it shows a respect).

By: Aryul

Aryul — Sat, 10 May 2008 01:24:46 +0000

Well one thing is for sure: Rafael is definitely the most likeable. He finished his work unlike the procrastinating Leonardo and nice to others unlike the anti-social Michelangelo. He also seemed to have no problem having women flock to him, and he probably would have been the best if he had lived longer. So yes, hats off to Rafael.

By: 100swallows

100swallows — Mon, 05 May 2008 05:59:24 +0000

Sorry, Frank, I knew you knew. I guess I’m just touchy about universities. When I think of Rafael and his style I remember the first Virgins and the Holy Family pictures, like a couple in the Prado, both before and after his experimenting with Leonardo’s chiaroscuro. And his portraits. Those owed nothing to Michelangelo. Let me work on this.
———————————————————————-
After looking long at Rafael’s work: Danu and Frank: I think I’m going to have to tear up my first sketch of a theory that Rafael was better without Michelangelo.
Frank:Did you change your avatar?

By: Frank Lin

Frank Lin — Mon, 05 May 2008 05:20:52 +0000

100Swallows, I was making a metaphor, I’m well aware of the fact Raphael did not attend a university, nor received direct help from Leonardo or Michelangelo; it was from their examples he learned from.
I am interested in seeing your examples of Raphael’s work not being bettered from the influence of Michelangelo, especially when most art critics say the opposite.

By: 100swallows

100swallows — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:24:22 +0000

danu: see my comment to Frank. What do you think? Rafael tried to learn from Michelangelo’s style, and may have, but I wonder whether he really grafted it successfully onto his own? It seems to me that his best stuff, his wonderful grace and colors, and even his drawing, were best without Michelangelo’s influence.

By: 100swallows

100swallows — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:06:54 +0000

That’s good, Frank, except that Rafael did all the study on his own–no German university “doctor father” pointing the way. Neither Leonardo nor Michelangelo helped him at all. He was self-taught. The poor kid had to do without the advantages of our monster universities and their degree requirements.
And do you know what (though it is beside the point)? I don’t think he ever really digested that inimitable style of Michelangelo’s. I wonder whether his best stuff wasn’t made before he became that pupil Vasari speaks of. His best things are his portraits and some strange grace you see in his early work and which he perfected in imitation of Leonardo but then put aside later when he tried for muscles and other Michelangelo features. But let me think about this to see if I really believe it or can support it with examples.

By: ion danu

ion danu — Sun, 04 May 2008 01:16:40 +0000

Such a pity Raphael died so young! I would have been trilled to see what he would have been capable of doing if he had Titian’s old age… or Michelangelo’s…

By: Frank Lin

Frank Lin — Sat, 03 May 2008 23:27:17 +0000

I always thought while Leonardo provided the graduate study, it was Michelangelo whom Raphael completed his phd with.